Learning 3D on YouTube: How Does It Work? - 80 Level Round Table

Animator, and department coordinator at SAE Creative Media Institute, Reza Sarkamari talked with 80 Level about his work on YouTube, discussed ways to engage with students, and shared some advice for beginners, who want to make games and film.

Reza Sarkamari is an Animation Department Coordinator at SAE Institute Australia
SARKAMARI YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/Sarkamari 
Twitter: @Sarkamari1
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarkamari/

SAE Institute Website: https://sae.edu.au/ 

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Transcript

hello guys and thanks for joining us today today we're talking with Reza

sarcomani about education in VFX and the movie Graphics we're discussing how do

you get hired by a big studio and talking about passion greetings and welcome to the 80 level

Roundtable podcast in each episode invites video game industry leaders to

talk about the world of game development no topic is off limits as long as it

relates to video game development new episodes are in the works so remember to follow us or subscribe and share with

someone you know we'll also enjoy the podcast maybe we can start with like a little

kind of look I'm gonna tell you like my opinion then maybe you can bounce off it

so I talk with a lot of uh video game developers everywhere like and

especially I hear this a lot in the United States and the thought is basically that

um kind of the education I'm not saying like 100 but often let's

say often right education for creatives and especially people who want to work

in games or film or you know Motion Graphics it doesn't work

um 100 all the time and what I hear from

people who are kind of learning or studying is that it's it it doesn't

basically costs a lot and it's very hard to kind of get that

money back and pay off the student loan and all that stuff and what I see is that more and more

people are kind of gradually embracing everything online you know going online

courses going to YouTube a lot and so on and my question is

um what do you feel this is happening and what are like the main reasons for

people to kind of shift from like more traditional spaces where they usually

um learn about 3D into kind of more kind of Guerrilla style of Education

um that's actually a very good question I I had an interview with with Autodesk

last month and almost the same question came up it's a question I actually get a lot from my own students in the class

um I mean self education is preferred by many of course because you create

your own timeline you don't need to worry about deadlines and Milestones

um and and you just focus on what you want to learn and remove the rest

however uh self-educating can be a double-edged

sword as well in my opinion I mean if you look at tertiary education it is

important to Learners growth uh but more importantly to their

transferable skills we're talking problem solving we're talking critical thinking how to resolve

conflicts within a team to bring an example would be

self-awareness I mean it's not something that you gain by self-educating it has a

regulatory role here help us view ourselves to help us see our actions our

approach to deadlines and job objectivity um and it's not something that you gain

by watching YouTube I mean flexibility is another example you know uh if as a

learner you're unable to adapt to various demands imposed by the

environment you won't be able to make your client happy uh it regardless of

how much you know um if you cannot

embrace the change which again circles back to that transferable skills

um it kind of defeats the purpose uh and uh that's why when I have this

conversation with my students I try to be very clear that it's not just about

what button to press it's about learning

how to be part of a team how to resolve conflicts I always say that

um our time in class is limited we cannot talk about everything in the classroom

as Educators not to mention that many educators are specialized in certain things

uh so I say look at these YouTube videos

as instructional videos as pre and post activities just to push the envelope if

you would like to know more about a certain topic that would be the time to kind of dive

writing and do a bit of a self-education it becomes quite important uh at some

point when Learners want to reach a level where they watch a workflow and they

connect the dots that's where I would say instructional videos on YouTube is great because or

any other platform is great because you already have that Foundation you look at

the workflow and you're like oh right I know the basics I know the ground rules I'm just going to connect the dot and

eventually you create your own method and that's how you grow as an artist

so in many schools in s at Amazon's Department coordinator at SAE

um my focus is mostly on soft skills when we get to our Studios when students

collaborate with each other and I always say leave the technical difficulties as

the you know the last concern we deal with it later that's why you have me

that's why you have the internet that's why you have each other but the transferable skills is something that we

really focus on because at the end of the day when you start your journey in a studio clients want to

get job get the job done fast and they want this to be done on time

[Music] um again the transferable skills very very

important factor in in education I think that's the whole concept

behind studying as an animator because it really doesn't matter if the end goal

is to be a lawyer to work in a medical field or want to be an animator there

are certain skills that you need to gain behind the scene soft skills to make you

a better person to understand the importance of time so on and so forth so

um I I usually that's how I answer these questions in a classroom and it's a very

popular question why we should study I I think I heard one businessman and he

said that there is this concept right now that

kind of hard skills are kind of you know like they're taking kind of like a back

seat right and you need to communicate more you know you know all this like hbr

kind of stuff like they need to communicate with the team be clear and in your

conversations Communications and so on and when I have

um projects that kind of push me in the direction where I need to communicate with people that are

not on my you know not in my like a brain hemisphere like in there like

I'm kind of more on the like creative side and I need to talk with you know coders

and sometimes it's incredibly challenging because they think in a quite different

Manner and whenever I say to them they they feel like this is

you know gibberish that doesn't make sense to them you know and I like what

you said that especially like in in games where

you have like tech people and you have artists making them work together it's it's it's

it's quite a challenge and maybe just going in this journey alone

uh and trying to do everything on your own and trying to get that those hard skills

on your own you might get somewhere but at the same time it won't get you this

experience you know working in a team communicating having conflicts

although we try to think that we don't really have them in the workplace or try not to help them they

still happen right and especially like you said when you're working with clients and so on but

again coming back to the businessman who mentioned the the kind of the hard skills taking the back seat

he also said another thing he said that uh if you feel that way try to go to a

surgeon who's gonna help you and it's going to be a great client oriented surgeon but

he's not going to be the best in his hard skills right you start having like a different point

of view so I guess to kind of jump off from that question is

can you tell us how does YouTube help you you know get those hard skills

that can help you kind of grow as an artist as an animator and try to be a better specialist

um I mean to me YouTube was a just a

platform you know that Learners can can dive into obviously

um I worked in this industry for 15 8 17 years exactly and uh as an educator

um I have a message I almost retired

um around 2007 started my study in at Sydney University and then

um found my passion in teaching around 2000 2009 2010 so it's been 12 years

that I've been teaching uh dealing with or working with uh very very talented

students so uh as an educator I have a message and I

have something to share and YouTube kind of gave me that platform

to connect with my audience and to share my findings

um what I also would like to the way that I would like to look at YouTube is

a community Hub where everyone shares information I've had scenarios

where my subscribers at times say well what Reza this method is great but have

you tried the other method and I was thinking to myself wow that is fantastic that's exactly what I want to see I mean

they care enough to spend the time and to connect with with the audience and to share it's not just a one-way

Street you know I do teach and I also learn which is fantastic so that

Community hub is really my end goal and again circles

back to how I run a classroom I don't want to be the guy who sits in front of everyone

else and talks for two hours I would love to bounce ideas off of students and

also learn at the same time because we're all sharing the environment we're sharing knowledge and there are times

where my students are proactive enough to dive deep into a particular topic and

come back with some findings and it's just exhilarating to have a look at that I'm like wow that is fantastic and you

just imagine working with with different artists over the years

um obviously I was thinking to myself well that's the time to start with this YouTube

Journey which kind of that how it was born was a funny

story but um yeah that that's a that's a platform for

me to communicate with my audience and to share really

my findings with with people all around the globe has been a bliss

I really like this idea about the community because when we

work with our kind of readers on 80 level we feel the same way we

don't feel like we're you know like My Philosophy is that uh

I'm probably the last person they should listen to right I'm not I'm not there to kind of

teach them how to do three I'm not a professional 3D artist but our goal is to find people who can

share something interesting in this field right

and building that Community for us on like during the first kind of years of

our journey uh as a media company that was the most important thing because we

thought that if we build if we have that kind of core

people who like us and understand what we're doing then it would be easier for us to build a bitter a bigger audience

and so how did you kind of approach it tell

us the story how this YouTube channel started and how did you start kind of amass the following and what were like

the main you know stages I guess in your growth

but that's a funny story how that channel was born um the the short answer is by accident

um the slightly longer version is I did a zoom master class for SAE I'm on

campus I think it was about fluid simulation back in April 2020

it was covet and we're all staying at home and I had this offer from a sale

man that you know students would love to kind of

have three four hours on that particular time frame and that time frame because I

live in Sydney Australia it was like 2 A.M in the morning and I was thinking to

myself all right challenge accepted let's do it so I I did the master class and student

asked me if I could upload the content uh uh to a website or platforms they

could they could go back and review the steps and watch the whole thing so I did

I've uploaded everything on my YouTube channel which didn't have a name back

then and I probably had one video and like eight subscribers they're all my students

um and yeah I uploaded my video I went to bed right after and the next day

um I had messages um you know and I started reading the

first few and even that was enough to make my day and that motivated me to to start and I

was thinking to myself well I've got something to share and this platform

uh looks fantastic you know but that made this Inner Circle of my

subscribers bigger and bigger now what I cover usually what I focus on I try to

have a focus obviously but what I focus is on computer Graphics I talk about

methods I talk about walkthroughs I tend to Target well-established software

packages that I've worked in the past such as like Maya painter unreal

marvelous nuke so on and so forth but because

I get subscribers who also participate they actually contribute to

the richness of the content all in a sudden one topic evolves to a

completely brand new topic where student um subscribers students Learners they

actually talk about different methods and one walk through or one technique

particular technique comes out of it and that makes me curious that oh that that's that to me seems like the next

logical step so why don't we look into that next time around

and it's just incredible to see how this

journey this platform is running by itself it's kind of shaping

and giving me the clues for where to next

and it's all because of um all the artists who are contributing to this online platform and that shows

how much um learning has changed the the traditional

learning the way that we used to know it has changed because it's all about

bouncing ideas of each other it's all about communicating again transferable

skills playing a massive role in here where um we just need to put our ego aside and

come to a realization that we all have our own experiences and we cannot move

forward the only way to do it is by sharing it and once you share your

knowledge and receive something in return you realize that oh my goodness okay that's that's the part that I

missed or that would be the one that I'm going to look into next time around

and that's how it's been uh since uh it's its launch in 2020. I mean the

channel is fairly Young but I'm having lots of fun with it I mean I'm a I'm a full-time employer at

SAE but um any time I get every single minute of

my personal time usually at the end uh goes to that YouTube channel because it

really keeps me refreshing it gives me the opportunity to have that

mingling time to have that communication with my audience and to learn a thing or

two so it's been absolutely fantastic and I think it's also uh first of all I

think you're very lucky in terms of like when you explain this uh when you tell

the story when you publish something online and then the next day there are comments

and reactions and that's kind of like this aha moment that you want to have

when you're starting anything right because often more often than not you

you do a lot of work you upload something and then there's nothing there's like that's the worst the worst

possible thing and I also want to say that it's also very rewarding when

you're talking with the community and you're having conversations and this exchange

it's a kind of it's a great feeling to share this knowledge with the audience

and get something in return and kind of exchange this uh you know techniques and

all that stuff but um talking about techniques and you mentioned Maya and nuke and all the

other tools out there um so I'm gonna tell you my journey through 3D tutorials how it sometimes

happens so uh because I work at 80 level I need to understand you know how this package works if that package works

so usually I end up on YouTube looking for people to explain how this or that works

and sometimes I have these uh situations

where you see a YouTuber or an instructor and

it just tells you you know a b c d e the steps and you go through steps and you

know you know anything it could be like Photoshop or anything you go from one

point to another and in the end you get something and you're super proud of yourself but in reality you have no idea

how you got there it's like you're just they're taking you by the hand and you

walk that they walk you around the um some some tool and then you're kind

of left alone then you realize that you don't know anything you don't really know how to

operate this this thing and for one thing it's those tools they are

super complicated right the the stuff that you have right now I know like Unreal Engine or Houdini or nuke or even

Maya which is like has thousands of plugins a lot of stuff there

um the question is what's your kind of method how do you

um kind of teach the tool as if it were you know paints and brushes and that's

it like what's your philosophy there that I'm really glad you mentioned that

because uh you know this can be one of the misconceptions

about 3D um the one of the biggest ones is the

importance of project planning and the amount of

research that needs to be done before you start with the tools

so diving into practical step-by-step tutorial without

uh knowing the ground rules can be very misleading and it does happen where

students look at the the cover of the video and they're like wow waterfall I would like to do

waterfall um but what they may miss is the theory and the

basics that the the thought process that goes behind that tutorial before you

start pressing that button so that's why when I was talking about transferable

skills I actually mentioned critical thinking because really you need to

think about do I know enough to sit behind the wheels right now

because you know the idea of driving figure of speech and the Driving

Experience itself can be a very different thing

um it is surprising when you know one thing they know the technique simply

because they memorize the steps as opposed to understanding it that's that

can be very very um misleading that that's why in many of

my tutorials I I start off by showing reference images or how body deforms if

it's a if it's a rigging tutorial just to reiterate that part of the workflow

that even though we know what we're about to do you still need to do your

study first if it's a if it's an effects that you're trying to create just go out

and see if you can film it you know if you're a sculptor focus on the uh the

anatomy first if you're a lighter study color theory first possibly

photography you know if you're an animator be up observant and gather reference for every single move and

those steps just help you to be prepared for any surprises that

may occur along the way in my videos at least one or two chapters at the

beginning I don't open the application I just talk about

references if we're trying to create dust what

would be a typical dust in that scenario look like how much density are we talking about that allows the viewer the

learner to improvise later on if we change the question because the problem

that you run into when you memorize the steps is there is like a a two percent chance

that outside that environment you get the exact same scenario you always get

something slightly different now if you understand the ground rules if you understand the basics if you if there's

no memorizing going on and it's just now I know why I clicked this button why I ran

that tool then that allows the learner to just get creative and enjoy the

process as opposed to ah the tutorial didn't work or I'm not really too sure

where to next so project planning and doing

during your study before you dive into the tool before you get your hands dirty

is very very important I'm really glad you you brought it up

I really like that answer as well because I talked

um with the CEO of Beyond FX and Beyond effects it's like they're doing a lot of

VFX for games and film and uh they're specialized in real time VFX and he told

me a funny story when can a client uh you know anyone please send them a brief

and the brief usually the client doesn't really know I mean sometimes they do but usually they

don't really know what they want and they they just send the the brief and it says well I need like a blue electric

explosion like I I need it by Monday or something right

um and it's like he's like he's saying sure I'll do it but then he kind of goes

to and starts you know Gathering references and figuring out what what the hell does that mean like what kind

of explosion and where it's going to be used and all that and

it's great that the stuff that you're saying it basically prepares you for like the

real world because never in the history of time have they gave you a task which was 100 what you

saw in the tutorial is it because obviously there's going to be something different even if you're specializing in

some very Niche thing like you're only doing like hard surface modeling or you're only doing like uh animal

animations somewhere there's still going to be so many variables that

it's just gonna be impossible to figure this out if you don't really go

from like the basics like you said the references the anatomy like the color theory all those kind of building blocks

that help you become kind of a better artist in general and having worked with

students having worked with a lot of clients in general

how do companies today how do they look kind of for

great artists to work with like what are the things that they

first looked the the look at the first and the second and the third stage and

so on uh is it soft skills is it hard skills is it particular uh tools that

you need to know in order to land a job or it's mostly you know they are looking

for some kind of star that's can do everything

yeah that's that's a very popular question that I always get from my

students what's the magic recipe what's the formula for us to land the job

um so as a junior you know

as a learner a junior artist I always say work on your portfolio know enough about

yourself to put together relevant content in your

portfolio so if you want to be an animator don't showcase

a radio model that you did two years ago because your audience

may not like it always think about your audience chances are in the panel there will be

an animator an animation supervisor someone in the department if you're interested in animation maybe no one in

from modeling departments so know your audience and try to sort of tailor your portfolio based on the role

um and I always say that don't compare yourself to seniors that's the most

intimidating thing that Juniors can go through and they it's traumatizing to

look at their you know professional reels coming out of a studio first of

all it's not a solo job it's a teamwork you know there are stages into that piece which can be very intimidating but

also those guys have 20 years 30 years of experience under their belt if you want

to start and if you go for an interview whoever is interviewing you'd does

understand that so the most important thing is to have relevant content in

your demoral and be confident know enough about yourself

to to know that you deserve this shot and that's why

seeing that confidence is equally as important again soft skills to be able

to sell your product to be able to Showcase

your capabilities to have the confidence to say well I do know this but I don't

know this but I'm willing to learn and I always say to my students be brave you

have absolutely nothing to lose and if they see the confidence that your

confidence will impress them of course you need to have the right content in your portfolio but it's always a good

balance between the technical side of things and the soft skill if you're too

you know egocentric or maybe come off as you know I really want this

you got to give me the job they kind of see through that and you may lose your the opportunity so be humble at the same

time be be confident I remember I had a student I think it was back in 2000 2012 and a

recruitment team from rising sun in Adelaide actually came over to the university to look at their students

demo reel and to give them feedback and they looked at one portfolio in

particular she was one of my best students in the class and they were very impressed and they started asking

questions it all of a sudden that feedback session turned to an interview session

but I would just love the way she handled the situation

um with the smile patient enough to answer all the questions and

the team was like oh we we want her she's fantastic we're looking for a modeler and she seems like the the right

candidate and I I remember that she started as a junior modeler and

then became senior modeler and um later on she became a department

supervisor and at some point she actually offered me a job to work with her

it was really really rewarding I mean after all these years she still thought of me as her to go person and that's

what happens in in teaching in general you get to be surrounded with love which is fantastic but

uh I guess what I'm trying to say is that initial spark that confidence that soft skill

Improvement can really take you a long way

you know what I can't agree more with this because um there are two examples that kind of

jump to mind when you talk about this I uh I went to GDC

like I think a couple of years ago and I used to go to a booth of this school

where because they shared all the cards of all the students and the students always had very good work

and I was lucky enough to meet kind of some of the students there and they were like super happy to meet me because they

know 80 level and we talked and there was this girl that was like super open like very nice to talk to you know like

she was um kind of like easy to be around and she had great work she was like an

environment artist and she she I think now she works in at naughty dog

and she's been working for a couple of years and she's kind of growing there and she contributed to like all the left

left of us franchise over like this these huge games and the growth is tremendous and I

thought at that time that they're not just making this Choice based on whatever she has on Art station

right she they make this choice because they think that this person is going to

be around other people and nobody wants to be around the person that's like too stuck up or you know

too much of a like a rock star or something right they want to have a person that they can

exchange opinions with and so on and the the next example is the same guy who

worked he's actually from done yet and he moved to I think belarussia and he

worked Belarus and he worked at the wargaming and he was doing these amazing environments for our world of tanks and

he again like you look at those environments and they you think well they only hired him because he's just

like a great environment artist but when you talk to him you understand that he's just like a

very nice chill person to be around with he's like you know again super open

talkative he's like a problem solver and all of the other things you don't really

see them when you look at the portfolio right and it's super important to have

all that I I know that like for maybe for a lot of Juniors it's not really a lot of help

like it's like what's your advice is to be a good person but the the idea is

that you need to have something extra there right in order to land a job in the place like you know like uh dice or

some other big Studio like Sony Santa Monica's like the line there is crazy

uh if you go to like any big Studio any big place like even you went to work at

Nvidia or Intel where they they create demos like in 3D and there is like

thousands of people applying literally literally like they go through hundreds

of thousands of resumes and it's very challenging to you know stand out and

like your portfolio probably is going to be just like the first step right and then starting point uh you you kind of

build on top of of that but while we're talking about uh kind of recruiting and

gonna work in this industry you mentioned that you worked for a long

time and what do you think were

the major changes kind of that happened in the industry at that time and how do

you feel they're gonna influence the the future changes and I I'll explain what I mean

like tools the availability of tools the availability of learning AIDS

uh the studios kind of openness all those elements like how do you feel

the influence overall kind of this feel

um I mean [Applause] these days there are various systematic

Pathways for 3D enthusiasts to help them with their education to

train them in 3D domain either or that the area that they're interested in I

remember back in my time I mean I'm talking early 90s

uh we had close to no resources we didn't know really where to go on how

to start we had software manuals just to go through software manuals this thick

just to go through to make sense of the tool to understand the tool but Flash Forward to right now

um I mean all you need to do is to narrow

down your interest of what you want to do and sign up for a course of course that

we don't assume that's all there is to it but at least you're off to a good

starting point right so that's the biggest difference in my opinion from

we're talking early 90s uh we and here's another thing uh in early 90s

Studios were still developing pipelines really there were no

cemented tested Pipelines for example ilm had to go through a brand new

pipeline to understand all right how we incorporate or blend a live action plate

with CG elements it was new back then but so many techniques and tricks have been

tried since then and because of that we're very we we're in a really great

position where it's perfect timing actually to learn and and to be a star because everything has been tried before

there we've got tested well-established pipelines in

studios of course we expect development we expect change in the future but

um the the level of

customizability and the the amount of tests that have been done

um behind the scene mixed learner jobs a

lot easier to adapt to be able to narrow down their focus so they can so they can

kind of take things to the next level um about

where the current 3D world is going that's a million dollar question

um you know we we're talking metaverse but we always need to kind of remember that

metaverse is just a term to describe the next significant

Paradigm in in our digital Technologies and networks so it's just a digital space how we are

going to use it ah who knows major technology companies like Apple

Google The Meta platforms like Facebook even Microsoft are developing their own

interpretation of the tech these days so anything can really happen in the future I'm actually

very excited for it I personally would like to

see um work that makes AI

more accessible that would be fun you know creating powerful deep learning models just to

accomplish things with complexity Things That No human can achieve I mean I was

reading an article the other day uh and some research groups have started

um with deep fake in real time and the end goal is to use it in simulation and

in games computer games at like that level of optimization while you maintain

photos realism is just mind-boggling I I you know we look at even today's

technology with ue5 already started with nanite and blooming and metahuman virtual

production On The Rise so much in is going on but that's the thing with

today's technology um and how rapidly it develops

we may have this conversation five years from now and you may say what are you talking

about Reza I just bought a set for friend's birthday that does all of it it

just makes everything obsolete yeah I totally I totally agree with you

it's like you you definitely you don't notice those jumps as you kind of live through

but if you go back a little bit like a couple of years and you look at the

stuff that was created back then you you'll be amazed because uh I had

this experience I have a three-year-old daughter and I'm kind of trying to give her a little bit more of content with

some kind of story and not just like this uh you know regular baby movies and I I watched

zootopia with her from Pixar and I remember at that time zootopia was

kind of like the Pinnacle of what you can achieve technically on a computer

right and I'm you know I'm watching this uh watching this film and it's like I'm

I'm professionally deformed like I I can't enjoy films like I used to so I'm

like watching watching watching this film and I and I start

start noticing like the lighting is off or the fur doesn't look that good or

like the liquids they are they don't really feel real or or like the animation is off here and there and then

I stop and I think to myself oh my God what are you talking about this is like

a great looking film right but I think the bar just gets so high and especially

in you know this in animation right because you look at stuff that you see

in the cinema right now like the I think this um Spider-Man Multiverse

the an animation film that was that was totally crazy when I was watching that in in the cinema I thought this kind of

content would never make it to the big screen right and the stuff that's kind of Netflix is doing and all that other

like the bar is incredible and I guess to kind of like my final question is

this is um how do you keep up as a professional like how do you make sure that you're

not you know you're not using techniques that are old

maybe like there's something better that creates better visual Fidelity how do

you make sure that you're kind of on top of things um I would say the secret sauce is

Passion because if you look at it as a job it gets tiring

really fast and it wears you out it's impossible to keep up if you look

at it as a job I'm one of the Blessed ones who uh I look at this as a hobby I

try to chase this just to satisfy my inner itch you know I

I work with thousands of students over the years and we talk about driving

factors but without oversimplifying their kind of two three main driving

factors amongst Learners um the first one is actually curiosity

where you're you're in a hot pursuit of accomplishing

their passion developing your skills you want to gain knowledge you want to know more because

you have that inner Edge [Music] um

that's in kind of an intrinsic motivation if I may uh I also work with you know many many

students past and present talented students actually who want to push themselves through the limits uh to gain

a type of reward praise and grades I call them which is fair enough but I

think uh the the best possibility best of both words would be the the third the

third possibility where you care about your time and care about your financial compensation but at the same time you're

passionate about what you do which is a golden mix so you don't need to worry about

um or how will I earn money or you know you don't have any financial problems your time management is there at the

same time you have the passion to move forward and that gives you the patience

to hang in there and not only to move forward but also

to contribute to today's technology to be able to

think about possibilities outside of this norm and create

something original I always say to my students that all right look at references look at different types of

lighting look at different types of modeling but also think about how you can put

your own spin to it how you can make it look more interesting now

with someone with no passion he or she may say uh leave me leave me out of this but

someone with passion and with motivation if you really love what you do

uh then you get curious you get that inner itch and you be like all right I'm

just gonna give it a try I'm not sure if I'm going to be successful but I'm gonna give that a try and that that is a good

starting point that's what I'm looking for in my in my students and I always say stay curious always stay curious you

know if you think all right you need to spend some time personal time outside the classroom do it if you think you

need to sort out the financial side of things on the side do it but don't lose

that Curiosity because with that a lot of things will go away it's not a an easy industry to

be in and in order to survive you really need to have

um that that Curiosity as a motivation and as a drive to to push you forward and

for you to go to places Reza I don't have anything to add except

that we are running out of time and I want to thank you for uh your time and

sharing our knowledge uh with this recording and for everyone interested

we're gonna leave links in the description so you can check out the

YouTube channel subscribe and enjoy the videos thank you so much for your time

once again and hopeful to talk sometime in the future thank you I would like to

thank you and your audience for the great opportunity and hope to talk to you guys again thanks for enjoying

another episode of the 80 level Roundtable podcast check out upcoming episodes on the 80

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[Music]